so i went to abc this morning, by myself while seth slept in, cause he was in la and got home at 4am...
and usually whether or not i agree with a sermon, they dont really truly bother me. i dont go to church expecting to agree so it doesn't surprise me or make me feel weird when i dont... but today i got a little shocked and it really did bother me.
his talk was about 'protecting marriage' which i'm sure you have all seen around on signs stuck in front yards or up on billboards referring to prop 8... which i'm strongly against... but the fact that i dont agree with his side wasnt even what the issue was. it was more of the fact of how hard he was pressing this view onto every person sitting in that room all while saying some really really inappropriate, disrespectful and hurtful things.
i dont understand in general why this idea of outlawing gay marriage in order to 'protect marriage' really makes sense to anyone. i understand that for a christian church and other religious organizations it goes against what they believe... but that doesn't give them the right to tell other people who they can and cannot love. and as far as protecting marriage... i think things like the bachelor as my friend gabe noted are far more detrimental to the ideas we are forming in our society about marriage than two men or two women who love each other wanting to spend their life together....
some of the points he used to argue this made me so mad because it was just like watching a disease spread as he said words that would only continue to spread prejudice and wrong thinking about how homosexuals are so different from 'us'... like its a war and there are two sides. which is not how it should be....
he said that 'homosexual men are known to be more promiscuous than heterosexual men.'
(this i thought was a prejudice and stereotypical view that i didn't even think people really thought anymore, i mean maybe in the south... but..) and that 'research shows' that even when they are in long term committed relationships they invite more than that one partner into their sexual life, and that this assists in the spread of aids.. and he talked about how a gay couple is not fit to raise children and then went on to relate children being raised by a gay couple to a child raised in a single parent home. he said that if prop 8 is passed 'they will change curriculum in schools to teach children that marriage between two men or two women is ok'....
UM yea they will and THANK GOD... because you know what? people will continue to be gay for as long as the world keeps turning and i hope that if we start teaching children that same sex marriage is 'ok' then not only will children who are gay feel more apt to come out without fear, but over time we can hopefully remove discrimination and the violence that can come along with it from our younger generations...
he also talked about how all sexual intimacy outside of marriage whether gay or straight is wrong... so lets see 'you can't have sex outside of marriage... but you can't get married... so because you are different from me, and i think what i believe is the ultimate truth above what anyone else believes, you shouldn't have sex your whole life, unless you become like me.'
at the end of all of this he said 'we all need to vote because as christians its our responsibility and i can't tell you which way to vote cause its illegal, but i'm pretty sure you know which way i'd like you to vote'. its nice that christians are getting more into voting, i just wish it was because of things more important than the same two issues that they have been clinging to above everything else that wont change in the end anyway....
its very hard to watch someone have that much power. to be one opinion spoken as 'absolute truth' to a thousand people every week... and not only does he have power because hes a guy in front of a crowd, but he's said to be a man of God and that alone gives his words power, and insures that many wont even question for themselves what he tells them. scary.
17 comments:
I came across your blog awhile ago...TOTALLY AGREE. I hope, hope, hope, that at least the message invited members to go home and think/talk about it for themselves...I'm afraid of people simply accepting the message because "research shows."
it may be illegal for him to tell his congregation how to vote, but im preeeetty sure hate speech is illegal too. and this should count. it SHOCKS me, absolutely shocks me how some people can sit and listen to this HATE and ignorance and utter bullshit and allow themselves to be convinced, even enough to vote and force their own (or really actually the pastors) opinions onto other people just trying to live their lives.
i recently read a mercy church christian's (surprise surprise) response to why she is not a bigot - cause "I'm not anti-gay but I am in favor of traditional marriage. But I am entitled to my own beliefs and opinions and I respect people's opinions if they differ."
how the hell does SPECIFICALLY VOTING to OUT-LAW people who love each other to get married respectful of THEIR beliefs?! DO PEOPLE JUST NOT SEE how ridiculous their arguments are?
And what the hell does traditional marriage mean anyways? why isnt there a HUGE outcry and people picketing and rallying and preaching and posting videos on u-tube about how completely intolerable DOMESTIC ABUSE is in marriage, instead of what happens privately in the bedroom that doesn't effect anyone but themselves? im sure kids growing up in an abusive environment are more likely to have issues than those who are raised by gay parents. the firends i have who were raised by gay parents are incredibly loving with an awesome perspective about live and love.... its not the parents sex life that matters, its a stable loving home with guidance and discipline and creativity and LOVE, in BOTH gay and non-gay households. FOCUS ON THE REAL FUCKING ISSUES of raising kids.
the only reason kids growing up in a gay household would have more issues than ANY OTHER non-gay family would be the baby-bigots at school raised by their mommy-daddy-bigots...(who PROBABLY went to a church like this one). the sooner this sick SICK cycle of hate and intolerence ends the better.
oh. and the fastest growing rate of AIDS is among monogamous women with non-monogamous husbands. hm, yeah. THAT sounds like a healthy, TRADITIONAL marriage.
and yes, while inviting more than one partner into their sexual lives may assist in the spread of AIDS, how is this fair to specific to only people who are gay? a long term, committed relationship would actually eventually STOP the spread of AIDS.
GAH. i can't even handle this.
Why do you go to ABC if you don't like it? Everytime you go you come back with a story about how you don't agree with the way they do things! I've only heard negative about ABC from you. So i guess I'm confused as to why you keep going back? I'm not saying ABC is in the right or that I disagree with anything you've written about them. From the Starbucksy atmosphere to the Sermons you just seem dissatisfied... thats all.
anonymous- well i have only been there 3 times and one time i enjoyed being there but i dont go to church looking for a place i feel 'satisfied' i know i will probably never agree or feel satisfied at any church... but i like to go and just hear what they say and then think about it and what it means or doesn't mean to me. anyway i probably wont go back there, unless some morning we're bored and wanna go somewhere close... only 2 out of three seromons have really bothered me and one was from a visiting pastor.. so i really have no idea what they're like on a regular basis... i dont like the way they spend money, but almost every church around here has built or is building a million dollar youth center so.... whatever. i'm not going to commit to any church because of the fact that i know i won be satisfied anywhere... but i dont really go looking to be satisfied, just to listen and then think and then talk about what i thought about.... there ya have it.
Hey Sklana,
This is Tina Steph's friend. First I LOVE your blog we AGREE on SOOO much (ie our passion for Edward in twilight...so hot) Anyway this blog really got me. I live in the "Gay Capital" of the world and hate whenever I go home to paso all the negative anti-gay sentiment. That whole area is in the dark ages sometimes!!!! I think that the argument of "protecting" marriage is COMPLETE BULL SHIT, why not try to prtect it from all the mis-led reality TV veiws on relationships, and lets not even bring up the divorce rate which is HIGHEST among heterosexual couples. I also completley agree that it is completely UNACCEPTABLE for a PASTOR to abuse the power of the pulpit and use it for HIS OWN political agenda,which is HARDLY the message of God. It is to me another for of brainwashing and the pastor becomes as guilty as any other dictator when he or she abuses the pulpit in that mannor. I am reminded of a passage in the book of John that discusses the golden rule. It states that any man even a sinner can love someone who is kind to him so what credit is it to you to love the people who are like US. Christa love goes ABOVE and BEYOND moral law, because most of the WORLD in every religion follows moral law, the do unto other law, but as christians we have recieved mercy that was undeserved and are to then treat all people as if NO PERSON is beyond mercy, that is what is SUPPOSED to set us apart from the rest, not self righteousness and piety. Anyway I could go on for days but good job Skylanna way to speak out against hate.
It amazes me how narrow minded and judgemental some Christians are. Pastors are in this amazing position of power and some of them use it for all of the wrong reasons. I can't belevie that there are churches that speak this openly about these types of judgements and opinios...how embarassing! Its people like him that have made my husband and I question why we belevied they way we did, and "belonged" to the things we did. You are right on Skylana!
I don't go to church a whole lot because...well for a lot of reasons, but the one time that I visited a church and I was horrified about some racial remarks about midle eastern people (I am 25% arabic), which were false, I emailed the pastor to tell him how offensive, naive, and ignorant his comments were. I also spoke to someone in person at a youth camp I worked out who said some offensive remarks about homosexuals. I'm not super assertive at all, but some people just don't know! And, they appreciate the constructive criticism.
On this issue, I agree, the pastor isn't going to change his stance if you say something.
Have you heard of Rock Harbor? I go there occassionaly, and the speaking pastor, Mike Erre, made a comment about homosexuals once that said, they are sinners, I am a sinner, we're all sinners and just as good/bad...this is a place for EVERYONE TO come. I liked his statement.
Why do a lot of Christians pick and choose what commands to obey and fight for? The Bible is very clear about divorce and adultery and how these things are not tolerated. How is God’s intolerance of divorce and adultery any different from his intolerance of homosexuality? If Christians are so concerned with “Protecting marriage” why don’t they start with fixing what is broken, and upholding God’s other commands pertaining to marriage. Why don’t they try to pass laws regarding divorce and adultery?
Think about it; if people fought to pass laws against divorce and adultery people would probably think twice about marriage and what it really means to commit for life to another person. They would probably also think twice about cheating on their spouse if they knew the consequences were great. Divorce and adultery ruin families, and leave many men, women and children to suffer from these selfish decisions. No person should have to suffer the heartache, stress and confusion of these circumstances, so why don’t Christians fight to protect marriage where these issues are concerned?
1CO 10-15
To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must
not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.
EXO 20:14 You shall not commit adultery.
JUST TO NAME A COUPLE!
I seriously have no idea who you are but...I stubbled across your blog and I have to say you are dead on!! thank God you posted about how you feel. You are awesome.
Hi, can I join your self-affirming club. I too am really good at criticizing everyone who doesn't agree my thinking as being, "narrow-minded".
Dialog sucks!
Who needs it, especially when we know everything anyhow...huh?
Hey, I got an idea!
How about we have zero tolerance for those who don't tolerate us and when we feel like things just aren't going our own dammed way, lets accuse them of being intolerant!
Or, here's another one.
Lets make hateful statements about those who are hateful (i.e. those we disagree with, which are most people). That will solve all the problems.
Slam those bastards..that works!
Where do I pay my dues?
-looking for a cause
hey annonymous, if you're going to act like you are so high and mighty, why not have some balls and at least sign your name? dialog is great... no one happened to say anything about disagreeing and wanted to discuss it, which i would only do if it was going to be helpful and to further both of our understanding of each other. i dont have zero tolerance for that pastor, but if we see injustice and stand by silently.... i think there is more reason to question cause than when we give a voice to justice. a pastor stands before hundreds, even thousands of people telling them what is right and wrong, people look up to them as leaders and many dont question what they say, they need to be responsible for what they say, if they claim to be like jesus yet show no love to those they seem to think need it most, then why are they even talking? if you dont like what i have to say, no ones going to make you read it... so relax and dont read... if you want to have an intelligent conversation about this issue, then stop the lame sarcasm, come down from your high horse and write to me like a reasonable person... i'm open to talking.
and also, i understand if you thought some people who left comments said hateful things.. but i'm not responsible for the words anyone writes but myself.... which leads me to ask.. what 'hateful' things did i say?
'dialog' is not someone standing up in front of others and telling them what to believe. obviously.
kate, um, you mean like this "rant" blog.
hey annonymous, still stayin the shadows huh? if you think this blog is a rant honey, you should check out some of my other ones, i'm sure you'd LOVE them hahah....
i love how you haven't answered what hateful things i said.. hm must be because nothing i said was hateful.
Amen, sister!
Part of what I just don't get is why Christians as a whole seem so hung up on the idea of the state needing to validate their marriages. At that point, the state becomes the regulator of a religious institution (marriage), which confounds the heck out of me. Isn't the purpose of separation between church and state to keep the government's paws OUT of religious institutions?
Why don't we just scrap the whole idea of state-sponsored marriage and have civil unions instead, for anyone who wants them, regardless of gender preference?
Then marriage could be left for the churches, it would no longer be a state-regulated institution, and its 'sanctity' could be preserved.
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