Wednesday, February 18, 2009

create me, kill me just dont clone me

all this has brought up questions that i think are good for all of us to ask ourselves...

its interesting to me that ivf could have been seen as something not controversial by some. i think it is clearly something that some people think is great and some people think is as scary as cloning. i think its interesting that christians would feel so strongly about something that others would see as trying to take control out of Gods hands and put it in our own... trying to be the ones who create life when its not coming from above.

my questions are.. who does create life? is it just God? if we have learned how through ivf, through cloning... does this mean we create life now too? or was that god? i know that no one knows these answers, but we all come to conclusions about what we think about it and that's why we have different opinions on things like in vitro fertilization, cloning, stem cells and abortion. it does seem silly to me to be so for in vitro fertilization and so against abortion, its ok to create life but not take it away? either way you are the one in control now, not God. in my opinion. i dont think either should be outlawed, but i dont think either is an ideal situation and both are looked at as more or less responsible compared to the other from different perspectives. i think people should certainly be allowed to have in vitro fertilization although i dont agree with it. i think people should be allowed to have abortions although i think they are sad and painful.

what we do with our bodies i believe is our business but in these situations it affects other people greatly, it even affects society as a whole. its good to think about these things and where we stand on them, not only for our own souls but in order to decide what kind of a society we want to be a part of and in turn choose to create around us.

as the line between who creates life ... between who takes life away... between who heals blurs more these questions will only become more of a concern in all of our lives. how do we want to deal with them? whether heated or not i love talking or starting conversation about issues like this because we could all afford to think more about the issues that shape who we become as a society.

who do you think creates life?
within cloning or ivf does your answer change?


Josh (the oak) said...

i don't know, but i don't want to be cloned because I wouldn't wish being me on anyone.

Will McCabe said...

OK, here are my thoughts...

1. God is the author of life. Psalm 139:13

2. In my opinion, this answer does not change with IVF. To me that is still natural procreation (I realize that some may disagree). The next question regarding IVF, is should someone try it if they cannot have Children, and are they taking control away from God? I don't know. Bearing children has biblically and historically been a subject of great controversy and heartache and I would never want to assume that I know what it feels like not to be able to bear children. I personally, do not see an issue with IVF any more than I see an issue with a vasectomy.

3. Cloning is not natural. Cloning is man's attempt to play God. Yes, that is my final answer.

Daniel said...

I tried commenting but couldn't get it to work. we'll see how this goes.

I think it's ridiculous to think that IVF and cloning is "taking control away from god" but somehow birth control is fine. Either they're all okay, or you're catholic. just pick one.

Also, it is beyond me how anyone could think that IVF is okay, but cloning is somehow against God's will or unnatural. again.. pick one.

I personally don't give a crap about any of them. Do what you want. Just be prepared to back it up and/or deal with the consequences.

skylana said...

daniel- i like your comment style. straight up. i think it all is maybe not taking control 'away' from god? i dont know but at least taking it more into our own hands... which isn't really what i dont like about any of it... hah if that even makes sense. i dont know if God is in complete control of that stuff in the first place...but i think birth control is (in the god/control dept the same) ... maybe a tiny bit different since people still get pregnant while using it A LOT. ...

Krystall said...

I don't really have anything fascinating to contribute (sorry) other than this is a topic that ties so many topics that people (myself included) had such strong opinions on, but possibly not a lot of information to back it up. I too have strong feelings regarding birth control, IVF (fertility treatments in general), cloning, stem-cell research and abortion. However, as I've grown older, learned a bit more, seen more grey, than black & white, I do question where my feelings and judgments come from. Sorry if I'm not making sense, I'm not great at writing, and I'm still learning my own thoughts. It's a good thing to question issues like this and seek truth. My natural desire will always be to protect life, unborn or otherwise. To what extent I can detail the parameters of that feeling, I don't know. Protecting life is one thing, manipulating is another.
Sorry so random, my thoughts are just kind of that way. I just wanted to kind of process out loud (in commenting) some of these thoughts.

Overall, I guess know what you believe and why. If you don't know, then be careful what you say and don't be surprised by other people's thoughts. random I know.

Davenports said...

this is really gonna be a straight up answer...not mean at all, i swear.
when our fertility dr was explaining the IVF process to us, he told exactly what my body would be doing and what he would. he told me about fertilizing one of my eggs with my husband's sperm and then implanting the fertilized egg back into my uterus. and then he said, and i quote, "a miracle happens and you get pregnant." as a person who actually walked out IVF, nothing in this life has confirmed for me more God's exsistence or the fact that God creates life. because here you have a scientific system that pretty much does everything for you...except creates life. doctors can't do that. that's why IVF for most women still only carries a 40-60% chance of success. you need God to make IVF 100% successful.
for us, after the IVF process was over and we did everything we could possibly do to get pregnant, we were told that we were, in fact, pregnant. and then two days later a bloodtest told my dr that our baby wasn't too be--he told me that i would miscarry.
but, you see, my husband, friends and family weren't satisified with that answer. we all knew that God would have the final say. so we started praying. we started waring for our baby. and against all of the odds, 4 hard-as-hell weeks later our dr saw our son's heart beating on an ultrasound. our dr wasshocked--he laughed in disbelief. but we knew. God created our son. no one else did.

this is not to advocate for IVF, this is merely to share my answer to your post question. - s

skylana said...

sarah- your comment doesn't seem mean at all.. and i think its good to hear from a different perspective and gives me stuff to think about. thanks for giving your input.

meg said...

I know people on both sides of this argument and I just want to ask one thing...

If IVF were shamed and not so embraced in the church when it all first began do you think that would change christian's opinions of it?

How is IVF not the same as an abortion or stem cell research? Isn't it taking the natural order of things and putting it into the hands of doctors?

Christians. Please explain.

Anonymous said...

i have always wondered where the church really stands on the issue of ivf... what do you think about surrogacy? i'm in my mid 20's and my husband and i are considering options for starting a family. adoption is first on our list, but having a surrogate mother carry our baby was also suggested.... what are your thoughts?